I noted the comments from Commander RCN and am glad to see this program take shape and gain momentum. I am a little worried to not see any chatter around crew size or composition. Especially in the options analysis phase. As the RCN's fleet expands, the pressure will be to have optimal crew sizes to keep costs down through the whole life cycle of the ships and to manage the personnel burden on the RCN. Thanks so much for your insight!
Planning for Rivers and CDC’s must have been done by the powers that be with future unmanned arsenal ships in mind. With Rivers and (potentially) CDC’s acting as MUM-T motherships. A Medium Unmanned Surface Vessel e.g. 400-700tons using a containerized design could accommodate 32 Mk41 tubes (tactical or strike) or other systems configurations. These will easily be the cheapest dollar per launch tube vessels on the water in the 2030s! Ice capable version could also be accommodated. Built in Canada.
Unmanned systems are something we're just getting started on, but im really excited to see what ideas come from them. While CDC will be manned, MUSV/LUSV will likely be alongside them.
To add, the notion to not have a full flight deck makes total sense. There are VTOL unmanned systems for ASW detection and also ISR now etc. Very soon UAVs will provide torpedo delivery capabilities and also VTOL AEW. However, If Irving holds the rights to building any future combatants over 1000 tons, how could this procurement be openly competed?
The status of Irving is up in the air. The rules aren't necessarily set in stone, and there is the question on if they even have the capacity to do it with the Rivers at the same time. They might not be able to do it even if desired.
Similar situation to Davie. If you dont have capacity, another yard will be chosen.
New here, but very interested in the OPVR/CMMC/CDC project and non-plussed by the relative light armament of the Rivers. The new corvette design is going to need the option to be overgunned to compensate and thus will need a lot of power. How much power can you fit into a typical corvette? Based on the Vigilance Flight 2 Sensors and Weapons Loadouts, you are going to need around 150 kW of power in a combat situation above the normal operating power requirements. This might require a gas turbine in addition to the diesel engines which would drive up the unit costs. Regardless, you're going to need at least an 85m (probably more like 95m) length hull to get that kind of power requirement, something similar to the Ada- and Braunschweig-classes. Vard probably has a design that can meet the new requirements, but I get the feeling we'll be seeing a Mk III of the Vigilance design before too long. But larger more capable ships are going to raise the price tag, I figure around $400m CAD per copy (even more if they plan to provide Ice Class capability - maybe 1C to keep costs manageable?).
And I think they need to change the threshold between Pillar 1 and 2 of the CSS to somewhere between 2000-2800t (or under 100m) so the smaller Great Lakes shipyards can get in on the action on the CDC project, because there is no way they'll be able to keep the design under 1000t.
I noted the comments from Commander RCN and am glad to see this program take shape and gain momentum. I am a little worried to not see any chatter around crew size or composition. Especially in the options analysis phase. As the RCN's fleet expands, the pressure will be to have optimal crew sizes to keep costs down through the whole life cycle of the ships and to manage the personnel burden on the RCN. Thanks so much for your insight!
Planning for Rivers and CDC’s must have been done by the powers that be with future unmanned arsenal ships in mind. With Rivers and (potentially) CDC’s acting as MUM-T motherships. A Medium Unmanned Surface Vessel e.g. 400-700tons using a containerized design could accommodate 32 Mk41 tubes (tactical or strike) or other systems configurations. These will easily be the cheapest dollar per launch tube vessels on the water in the 2030s! Ice capable version could also be accommodated. Built in Canada.
Unmanned systems are something we're just getting started on, but im really excited to see what ideas come from them. While CDC will be manned, MUSV/LUSV will likely be alongside them.
Thanks Noah, this clarifies things for sure!
To add, the notion to not have a full flight deck makes total sense. There are VTOL unmanned systems for ASW detection and also ISR now etc. Very soon UAVs will provide torpedo delivery capabilities and also VTOL AEW. However, If Irving holds the rights to building any future combatants over 1000 tons, how could this procurement be openly competed?
The status of Irving is up in the air. The rules aren't necessarily set in stone, and there is the question on if they even have the capacity to do it with the Rivers at the same time. They might not be able to do it even if desired.
Similar situation to Davie. If you dont have capacity, another yard will be chosen.
New here, but very interested in the OPVR/CMMC/CDC project and non-plussed by the relative light armament of the Rivers. The new corvette design is going to need the option to be overgunned to compensate and thus will need a lot of power. How much power can you fit into a typical corvette? Based on the Vigilance Flight 2 Sensors and Weapons Loadouts, you are going to need around 150 kW of power in a combat situation above the normal operating power requirements. This might require a gas turbine in addition to the diesel engines which would drive up the unit costs. Regardless, you're going to need at least an 85m (probably more like 95m) length hull to get that kind of power requirement, something similar to the Ada- and Braunschweig-classes. Vard probably has a design that can meet the new requirements, but I get the feeling we'll be seeing a Mk III of the Vigilance design before too long. But larger more capable ships are going to raise the price tag, I figure around $400m CAD per copy (even more if they plan to provide Ice Class capability - maybe 1C to keep costs manageable?).
And I think they need to change the threshold between Pillar 1 and 2 of the CSS to somewhere between 2000-2800t (or under 100m) so the smaller Great Lakes shipyards can get in on the action on the CDC project, because there is no way they'll be able to keep the design under 1000t.