any corvette design with VLS will need to be interoperable with the riverclass to the point the river class can launch from the Corvette. One of the knocks of the riverclass is a lack of VLS - thus could help with that and do many other things as well.
If the unit economics are true at $200-400M per copy vs what is one River? $5b ? And they can get the crew size aggressively down then it’s a winner! Not withstanding the other design challenges. Build a “universal solder” configurable for many missions. Why not Chop 3 Rivers - down to 12 in total and build 24 of these?? Logistics, proper kit inventory and crew cross training will be critical in this concept IMO. But you will have some scale to work with at 24 units …or more
If Vard can get Vigilance exactly as they plan it, with everything working perfectly and at the price point they're looking for under 200m per vessel? They'll have a big winner in my books.
That goes for any similar concepts that I've seen floated around, like the Multifunctional Support Ship the Dutch are looking at, though both are radical for their own reasons!
I want this to work. I really do. I think it's possible. It will take a lot of work, and a lot of effort, but the concept provides probably one of the best possible packages we could ask for.
Once we get past 10, a worry a lot less though about issues relating to scalability. Once you hit double digits, in my mind, that's enough to justify a lot of things when it comes to armamant, training, logistics, etc.
There is lots to work with in the design itself, especially if you strip away more of the combat demand in later batches/variants.
LX300 RPAS for sure! There are so many options! I assume that the initial uncrewed vehicle selection can happen late in the design/build process and easily evolve over the ship’s lifetime.
Yes a bit bigger- 2000t +/- would be mor bonus’s in functionality. What specifically does “partial militarized ship” mean?? As my uninformed thought would be if it’s less survivable, keep it smaller and have more of them
In this case, partially-militarized for Vard means that the hull is constructed to civilian standards, but with additional militarization (damage control, NBCR protection..) that normally wouldn't be fitted to a vessel like this. It'll also use civilian components and systems where allowed.
This drives the cost down significantly for them per hull, while keeping a baseline level of protection. Their logic makes sense. A vessel this small isn't going to be saved by having military grade shock resistance, reinforced hull, etc.
So why waste the effort and time? Why drive up the cost? Better to spend that money elsewhere in their eyes.
Yes, that’s what I was thinking - once u build them at scale the yard should get really good at pumping them out quickly and cheaply. Along with a flex design that can be easily updated. Perhaps they might even sell a few for export! Crazy thought I know!
IMO, forget the notion of a full flight deck with a crewed chopper. If the first vessel isn’t completed until 10 years from now, you can imagine how far uncrewed drones will have come by then. I’m saying uncrewed with a human in the loop (e.g. via link16 RF up to 300nm etc)however for some select missions the drone could operate fully autonomous
Vard defiently sees them for Export potential, likely would be a great pitch to a mid-sized or smaller navy if they can get everything worked out. There are some things I would like to see. She's a bit to small, to me, to do something nice with say, a good A-Frame and crane, but the potential is there for just about anything.
I agree. A ship like this doesn't need a full helicopter, not like we have the capacity to spare with the Cyclones. One the River come into play, the fleet is gonna be stretched already. There are a lot of great UAS designs out there, most of whom can do 90 percent of what a vessel like this could want to do.
The designs are already out there, so after ten years, and with the navy already exploring a bunch of different UAS, I can only imagine the potential options after a mother decade! If it were up to me, the LX300 would be my go-to for a ship like this.
The question is what do we want? What do we need? To replace the Kingston class to do MCM in war and patrol in peace? Expand that via modular capabilities to tow a Krait array and launch torpedo carrying UAV? A 57mm main gun with FC radar to tackle those ever present drones? There are loads of designs between 80m and 100m, how many of them manage to keep the crew down to 40 to 50? So, you are right there are some key factors in play, how do we balance them to get a useful capability at a reasonable price?
any corvette design with VLS will need to be interoperable with the riverclass to the point the river class can launch from the Corvette. One of the knocks of the riverclass is a lack of VLS - thus could help with that and do many other things as well.
If the unit economics are true at $200-400M per copy vs what is one River? $5b ? And they can get the crew size aggressively down then it’s a winner! Not withstanding the other design challenges. Build a “universal solder” configurable for many missions. Why not Chop 3 Rivers - down to 12 in total and build 24 of these?? Logistics, proper kit inventory and crew cross training will be critical in this concept IMO. But you will have some scale to work with at 24 units …or more
If Vard can get Vigilance exactly as they plan it, with everything working perfectly and at the price point they're looking for under 200m per vessel? They'll have a big winner in my books.
That goes for any similar concepts that I've seen floated around, like the Multifunctional Support Ship the Dutch are looking at, though both are radical for their own reasons!
I want this to work. I really do. I think it's possible. It will take a lot of work, and a lot of effort, but the concept provides probably one of the best possible packages we could ask for.
Once we get past 10, a worry a lot less though about issues relating to scalability. Once you hit double digits, in my mind, that's enough to justify a lot of things when it comes to armamant, training, logistics, etc.
There is lots to work with in the design itself, especially if you strip away more of the combat demand in later batches/variants.
LX300 RPAS for sure! There are so many options! I assume that the initial uncrewed vehicle selection can happen late in the design/build process and easily evolve over the ship’s lifetime.
Yes a bit bigger- 2000t +/- would be mor bonus’s in functionality. What specifically does “partial militarized ship” mean?? As my uninformed thought would be if it’s less survivable, keep it smaller and have more of them
In this case, partially-militarized for Vard means that the hull is constructed to civilian standards, but with additional militarization (damage control, NBCR protection..) that normally wouldn't be fitted to a vessel like this. It'll also use civilian components and systems where allowed.
This drives the cost down significantly for them per hull, while keeping a baseline level of protection. Their logic makes sense. A vessel this small isn't going to be saved by having military grade shock resistance, reinforced hull, etc.
So why waste the effort and time? Why drive up the cost? Better to spend that money elsewhere in their eyes.
Yes, that’s what I was thinking - once u build them at scale the yard should get really good at pumping them out quickly and cheaply. Along with a flex design that can be easily updated. Perhaps they might even sell a few for export! Crazy thought I know!
IMO, forget the notion of a full flight deck with a crewed chopper. If the first vessel isn’t completed until 10 years from now, you can imagine how far uncrewed drones will have come by then. I’m saying uncrewed with a human in the loop (e.g. via link16 RF up to 300nm etc)however for some select missions the drone could operate fully autonomous
Vard defiently sees them for Export potential, likely would be a great pitch to a mid-sized or smaller navy if they can get everything worked out. There are some things I would like to see. She's a bit to small, to me, to do something nice with say, a good A-Frame and crane, but the potential is there for just about anything.
I agree. A ship like this doesn't need a full helicopter, not like we have the capacity to spare with the Cyclones. One the River come into play, the fleet is gonna be stretched already. There are a lot of great UAS designs out there, most of whom can do 90 percent of what a vessel like this could want to do.
The designs are already out there, so after ten years, and with the navy already exploring a bunch of different UAS, I can only imagine the potential options after a mother decade! If it were up to me, the LX300 would be my go-to for a ship like this.
The question is what do we want? What do we need? To replace the Kingston class to do MCM in war and patrol in peace? Expand that via modular capabilities to tow a Krait array and launch torpedo carrying UAV? A 57mm main gun with FC radar to tackle those ever present drones? There are loads of designs between 80m and 100m, how many of them manage to keep the crew down to 40 to 50? So, you are right there are some key factors in play, how do we balance them to get a useful capability at a reasonable price?